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After September 11, Seth Tobocman's comic book on politics, struggle, and
tall buildings is more relevant than ever.
By Colin Moynihan
The Metropolis Observed
March 2002
Since 1979 Seth Tobocman--along with graphic artists such as Peter Kuper,
Sabrina Jones, and Jordan Worley--has edited 32 issues of a relentlessly
realistic comic book called World War III Illustrated. Addressing
urban and political issues, it seeks to combine unique perspectives with
distinct visual images often influenced by the work of the WPA artists
of the 1930s. Contributors have acted as subjective documentarians, mixing
art and activism while often describing scenes they participated in: the
eviction of a Lower East Side squat, police brutality in the Bronx, human-rights
violations in Bogotá. World War III has published special
issues to chronicle national news stories, such as the Tompkins Square Riot
of 1988 and the disruption of the 1999 World Trade Organization meetings
in Seattle. After the destruction of the World Trade Center on September
11, Tobocman (pictured in the self portrait at right), Kuper, and Worley
published a special issue addressing U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East
and the attack on the towers. Not long ago, Tobocman took a break from his
work to talk to Colin Moynihan at a café on Avenue B in Manhattan.
How does a comic book work as a medium for political ideas?
It's natural for human beings to create art that relates to the things that
are of concern to them, so if we're involved in politics we're going to
produce art about that. I see politics as entering into art naturally. The
interesting thing about a comic is that it's a simple form of communication
that allows you to express complex ideas. It lends itself to a certain amount
of intellectualization and symbolic representation that other forms might
not. Simple black-and-white line drawings, stencils, and silhouettes can
become symbols--and they can easily be attached to other symbols. But when
you try to include symbols in a realistic color painting, it often doesn't
work.
Before the World Trade Center was destroyed, you had already established
a long history of drawing tall buildings. What's your interest in these
depictions?
Living in New York you develop a relationship with big buildings, and you
understand them a little differently than other people. The buildings here
have an element of humanity because they're your environment. Particularly
in living as a squatter, which I did for three years, you're fixing
and protecting buildings and then seeing the city destroy buildings while
you're trying to defend them. So buildings become pretty significant,
and they start to speak to you. They mean a lot to us in New York because
it's such a struggle to have a roof over your head.
One of the first things you did after September 11 was create a six-panel
cartoon and distribute it on the street. The piece presents the choice of
whether to participate in a cycle of violence or try to attain peace. What
did you want those who looked at it to think about?
During the last hundred years America hasn't experienced war within its
own borders. So in that way a lot of people in this country were somewhat
naive--they didn't understand what people in other parts of the world had
gone through. After September 11 people in New York had an understanding
of what it means to have a violent attack in your city. I think it was a
chance for us to develop some understanding of people in places like Baghdad
and Indonesia who have to deal with this all the time. Our country has been
bombing Iraq for a decade. People there who have nothing to do with the
government or the military have to deal with the bombing. There are hundreds
of people dying--and that comes from us. Suddenly we have a window into
this reality that could help us become more mature people in understanding
the world.
Why did you choose the name World War III Illustrated?
After September 11 people began coming up to me on the street and saying,
"It's World War III for real." I thought that was odd because
when Peter Kuper and I started the magazine in 1979, the United States had
been at war for twenty or thirty, maybe fifty years. More than a million
people in El Salvador were killed by death squads trained by the United
States, but we felt as if we were at peace. We know we're at war now, but
why did we not feel we were at war then? Obviously because it now affects
the average person in the United States. We have to realize we have been
at war all this time--and that's why we were calling the magazine World
War III Illustrated in 1979.
Do you see any parallel between 1979 and 2001?
We started the magazine in a very similar situation, which was mainly inspired
by the Iran hostage crisis. The Shah was overthrown and a new regime came
in and seized the American embassy and held a number of hostages. Everyone
in America was shocked. They were wondering: How could they do this? Why
are they so angry at us? And of course we were outraged. A lot of people
didn't know that the United States had overthrown the democratically elected
government of Iran and that people there had been living in fear of the
Shah. I see the current situation as the Iran hostage situation times a
thousand: it's not a question of fifty-two people being held in an
embassy, it's a question of upwards of three thousand people being murdered.
And again everyone is asking: How could this happen? Why would anyone hate
us so much? We've been in isolation from our own foreign policy. The hatred
comes from the fact that we have been acting as an aggressor and as the
dominant imperialistic power in the Middle East since World War II. We've
supported oppressive regimes. People there are living in horrible conditions.
They see us as the cause of it, and they're angry.
What made you decide to do the special issues relating to the World Trade
Center? Do you have an obligation to address the big political issues and
major events of the time?
I was getting calls from people asking what I was going to draw about the
World Trade Center. Artists were calling and saying, "I've got a piece
about this, and I need a place to get it out." It seemed like people
wanted World War III to make some comment. I want the comic book
to be a place where we can address important political issues. We started
at a time when there were very few adult comics, so there wasn't a place
where comic-book artists who wanted to deal with serious issues could do
so. We wanted World War III to give us a platform where we could
speak our minds without censorship and develop our own ideas.
Can you cite a few examples of what's in the special issues?
Christopher Cardinale, who was riding his bicycle right by the World Trade
Center when it crumbled, described the attack in detail from the perspective
of someone on the street. He's shown a lot of different reactions to what
was happening and the ways people were dealing with it over the course of
the day. Frank Morales is an Episcopal minister who performed last rites
over the bodies that were found at ground zero. He's been down there with
the firemen digging up bodies, and he's writing about his experiences.
Nicole Schulman is doing a piece about Union Square, a place where people
gathered every day after September 11 to talk. There were people there who
were for war and people who were for peace--but there was conversation and
camaraderie that transcended opinion. We were all there as New Yorkers dealing
with the crisis. That's why artists in New York have more to say about what
happened at the World Trade Center--because we live here.
What do you want to achieve with this issue of World War III?
I want to contribute to a dialogue among many people about where society
should go. I want to inspire younger people to start thinking about issues
around them. But I don't want to convert people to my way of thinking--I
want them to understand the way I see things and make their own decisions.
The best art has an active role in society. It isn't intellectual--it's
part of life. There's a sense that the world walks through our comic book:
it's not safe. We are all part of the art we make, and it scares some people
and attracts others. We're not just observers, we're participants. And we
want to encourage the people who look at our stuff to be participants too.
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